I wouldn’t take actors as icons of masculinity, and in particular actors playing cowboys. The 50s tough guy simply don’t work because the tough-guy image is cardboard – where’s the emotional depth, the three dimensional aspect of real men?

I’d rather take real men as role models, rather than actors.

Not to say that art can’t teach you anything about human nature – great art definitely can – but cowboy movies of the 50s are not the right place to look. I agree that men are negatively portrayed in the current mass media, however.

Expressions of emotion in men have always been celebrated – you only need look at fairy tales, ancient myths, and other stories. I think the idea that men should be cold and unemotional is recent and destructive.

The key problem is that people associate emotionality with femininity. I completely disagree with this. Men have great depth of emotion. IT is true that our ability to control these emotions, when required, has and should be celebrated. You can’t be an effective soldier or fireman if you are curled up on the floor crying. But likewise, a real man must allow these emotions to flow out when the time is right. How can these emotions be feminine – we are men!

I agree that public displays of weeping and hugging are nauseous, but you could argue that politicians would do anything for the right photo opportunity anyway. But, sharing emotions is a good thing in the right time and place. In Australia, much like how it sounds in the USA, we have the stereotype that men should ‘tough things out’ and are not given license to share their feelings with other men. Without question, this is one of the reasons why the male suicide rate in Oz is FOUR times the female rate (and more suicides are probably hidden in car accidents). For men aged 17-25 the suicide rate is 7 times the female rate, and it is particularly bad in rural areas. Men are dying rather than letting their emotions out, because it has been drilled into them that a real man doesn’t display emotions or weakness.

In saying that men are emotional, and should embrace this, this is not to say that the SNAG is the answer, either. The SNAG and the Mangina are effectively the same – a man who generally always sees women as right, as the victims, the wilting flowers who are crushed by men. He will typically always take the side of women and assume that they are more honest, ethical and principled than men. The Mangina is a sellout and typically is not able to emotionally connect and share with other men. He automatically views them as competition or as a threat rather than as a brother, and will often try this angle in order to ‘look better’ in front of women and get into their pants by attacking/shaming other men who are competition.

The old, John Wayne, idea of what a man is doesn’t work, and the feminist-imposed model is c r a p too. Collectively, we need to think, talk, and sort out a new model.

I would say that we do need models and heroes, and that you cannot simply let men develop on their own. If you don’t have role models and a positive idea of masculinity then young boys and teenagers have no guiding light. I disagree that ‘everybody’s different and just let them be how they are’. Sure, diversity is a great thing, but if you have no positives, then boys and teenagers are simply going to look for role models in other places – gang leaders, rock stars, etc. We should celebrate the great qualities of men and the great achievements of men, without necessarily demolishing men’s individuality.

You just need to be careful that Victor Hugo, Tolstoy, Max Planck, Mark Twain and Mozart are celebrated as great men too – not just soldiers, musicians and sports stars.

hello, this is Fiction!

“When male characters do exhibit masculine traits on TV, they are often made to look like fools in the process. Sitcoms such as “According to Jim” and “King of Queens” — featuring overweight, average-looking husbands married to gorgeous, skinny wives — are a prime culprit. The man is usually portrayed as a complete schlub who couldn’t find his ear from his elbow without the guidance of his far intellectually superior wife.”

it’s about time men got jerked over this kind of portrayal of men!

“Whatever happened to the strong silent type? The male movie stars of yesteryear provided some good examples. Men with the quiet strength of Gary Cooper, the warmth and humility of Jimmy Stewart or the laconic toughness of Robert Mitchum were the real deal. Hold the tears.”

These were men of virtue, again, Fiction.

Why can’t people, including men of all ilks and design, just be who they are inside without all this programming of how some people think they should be? sounds like an awful lot of “shoulding” on yourselves.

Jerry was searching the net on some news about that Crazy Mary Winkler. He came across our site in his search. He writes in regards to dumpyourwifenow.com:

I did a Google search on her name. My first stop was a posting about Mrs. Winker on a blog entitled, “Dump Your Wife NOW!” Quickly, I became less interested about the accused and more curious about this blog. As I began to explore, it soon led to the discovery of a modern day version of the He-Man-Woman-Haters Club in the bloggersphere.

What I found was an extensive internet ring of anti-feminism blogs and websites; some funny, some crude, all serious.

What purpose is being served by these cyber outposts of anti-femanazism. I’ll let their titles and sub-titles do the talking. Here are the notables (My comments):

* Dump Your Wife NOW! – Turning Doormats into Men. Finally a site for the unhappily married man. Forget counseling we are all you need to kick her to the curb! (Apparently, you can also forget punctuation)

Jerry also adds about our site:

…. I’ll even give credit where credit is due: The “Dump Your Wife NOW!” boys actually have an intelligent dialog running. I don’t agree with everything they post, but at least they they aren’t indiscriminately blasting women with hate.

So I had to write Jerry back, and here’s my response:

Ummm.. you used the word “they” twice in a row. (Apparently, you can also forget punctuation)

RE: “Most of them aren’t brave enough to post their name and/or picture.”

Ummmmm.. Did you not see our ABOUT US page? Our pictures and bios are proudly displayed at http://www.dumpyourwifenow.com/about/

You know Jerry,

I am happy that you are happily married. But why bash your male brothers? When your wife wakes up one day after twenty years of marriage and is bored with you, and runs off to shag the pool boy, who is gonna listen to you at the bar? Her girlfriends? No Jerry. Your brothers in the human race who have been there too. You are a man first. A husband second.

Men in glass houses should not throw rocks. Please re-work your posting with less of a mangina point of view. The picture of the middle finger is offensive Jerry.

We’ll be here for you, should that day come when your wife wants something else.

Jerry replied soon after:

Touche regarding ‘they’.

However, I said “most” – not “all” – of the sites in question don’t post their personal info. Your site was the difference in my description.

And yes, the middle finger is offensive. That was the point; Fred X is more offensive than constructive. But at least I blurred it; which is more than I can say for Fred X, a site I found through yours.

If my wife ever takes the kids and moves on to greener pastures, I’ll be sure to keep you guys in mind. Good luck with the blog; I’ll continue to check it out.

Thanks for stopping by!

Jerry’s blog can be found at: bloggeddrain.typepad.com/thedrain/2007/04/the_mangina_mon.html

And of course be sure to visit the Fred X Blog

I don’t fully agree with men not being at all emotional. Men don’t have to fit into the stereotypical ‘stoic’ sort of approach. There are aspects of manliness that are everlasting, such as honour, rationality, inner strength and decency (not that women can never hold any of these aspects, but they come across as often very masculine attitudes). What I do agree with is that men (not merely males) ultimately make decisions based on reason and rationality, while I’ve often noted some women make decisions based on the most random, usually emotional things ( such as: “let’s vote for that politician. I’ve got no ideas about his policies but he says that he loves his wife, so he must be okay.”). I do think that males are born, but being a man is something that must be taught, and as such is often being stifled by the very feminised modern education system and the decline of the traditional man role model.

I’m very confident in being a man, and I’ve never had any problem in giving very close friends a bear-hug when I say hello or goodbye. I’ve never seen it as at all effeminate (though I’ve lived outside of the UK for a couple of years so I’ve probably picked it up as cultural thing).

Interesting website, not sure if I agree with everything on here at the moment – I need to read more to make up my mind, but please keep up what you’re doing.

I have met the grown-up sons of quite a few feminists and single “empowered” mothers, and they are often misogynists and even violent toward women. Their domineering mothers attempted to castrate them and they retaliated.

wikipaltz.com/index.php?title=Jason_West&oldid=26827